~LiFe’S bReAtH~

I am heart broken.

Elo darlings! Remember the forum thingy i found and promised to post? Well here it is. Do read and think about it.

Nihonsurfer: hey everyone! i was wondering… if any of you live in/near

carmel

, ny, could you please tell me of any episcopalian churches? thx a million!

also, i would like to know some of your views on topics that have "rocked" the christian community. what are your views on homosexuality, today’s us government (ie, seperation of church & state), modern/new-age religions like wicca or discordianism, etc. i would really appreciate some feedback, as i am doing some research. thx again!

Zeo: Homosexuality is equal to death in my book.Our government needs revival (really really bad). Wicca is the same as satanism because in that "religion" they draw their pwer from a source other than GOD (that means it has to be satan)!

Fallen Angel: Yes, and in MY book, beautiful girls from all over the world will ask for my autograph and hand me iced beverages every time I walk into a room. It’s just too bad the rest of the world doesn’t READ my book, really, such a shame, I have such great things in mind for how next year should be. Yah, I agree with you Zeo. TVs are the same as satanism too because they get their power from electricity *which isn’t God u no so basically satan*.

Our government needs a leader who understands that it’s more important that people give up their freedoms to think and act as individuals and be forced to subject themselves to one person’s interpretation of a two thousand year old book. Until then, I think it is safe to say that all of us should move to

China

as their government is surely on a better path than the one that this wretched country treads. Westboro is right, God is punishing this country for accepting the gays.

Glad we agree on so much Zeo.

Edit to add: A few Wiccans tell me that they worship the earth and nature and only wish peace and happiness for the earth’s inhabitants, I told them that they were worshipping Satan and that their love for other people wasn’t real, it was Satan just TRICKING them into thinking they loved people when really they’re all murderous satan worshippers.
Then a satanist told me I was an idiot and that satanists don’t believe in satan, they only woship man’s greatness, I told him "No U!" and that men are the devil so it’s the same thing.

Other things that are satan: TV *does not get power from God*, Actors *pretend to be someone other than who they are, which is not natural, it is the same as homosexuality and equal to both death AND satan*, paper *God made trees for a reason, cutting them is unnatural and probably requires tools that do not get power from God, this is also two satans* Marshmellows *God didn’t make a marshmellow tree, also unnatural* Dogs *Man’s best friend is woman, not dogs, it’s ADAM AND EVE NOT ADAM AND FIDO!!!* Books *made with paper which is already two satans, this means that the Bible is satan.* OMG, I JUST REALIZED I TYPED THAT…ON A COMPUTER!!!11 Computers are 50 satans becuz they don’t get power from God and are made from unnatural plastic! I must go repent quickly and pray that the almight Lord in all of his wrath does not strike me dead from my blasphemy!

Nihonsurfer: lol fallen angel! your sarcasm enthralls me to the max!

and thank you megs for the input. however, i was looking for more of a personal response, as i have already read of those topics in the Book.

and last, but not least, zeo. your input, to me, sounds a little bit unresearched and irrational. my advice is to think out of the box some. hell, if you’re up to it, tear the box apart! always let your heart and mind speak with you, never anyone else. God created your hear and mind for a reason, so use them!

blessings,
~alex

FallenAngel: I think I love you .

I’ve studied religions quite a bit, though admittedly, I have not studied Wicca except through my Wiccan friends, and have found all of them to be quite enlightening to my perspectives and lifestyle as a…well, whatever I am.

I was raised in the not so tolerant, not so educated Christian community and it was in Christian high school *PLEASE DONT SEND YOUR KIDS, it doesn’t accomplish what you want it to, just look at me :/* that I realized that I was sick of the same old crap. Sure it’s easy to say that homosexuals are sinners and abortion is murder and all other religions are *OMG equal to satan*…until you find out one of your friends is gay, you get pregnant and your best friend tells you he’s Wiccan. What disturbs me is that it seems like more than half of the Christian community *really more like 75%* still have NO experience or even KNOWLEDGE about any of these topics, yet they allow them to completely reform every bit of their theology and make it their focus, rather than God and love. Most Wiccans I know act more like Christians that Christians, it’s really pathetic.

I’m really not big on politics, though I suppose I should be, I’m really into living *myself* and how to do that well, so things as broad as politics have never had a huge draw for me. We’ll see if that changes once I can vote.

I have a few homosexual friends, and I REALLY don’t see what the big deal is, why maybe .005% of the Bible is more important than the other 99% of the message. Just love God, and love people and quit nitpicking and harassing people you dont understand.

I’ve found a lot of the modern religions to be rather…ludicrous. By modern I specifically refer to Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormonism…and I really just don’t have much respect for their belief system at all. While Buddhism and Christianity and many of the more paganistic "religions" require faith in the unprovable, the 2 aforementioned require faith in the almost certainly blatant false. I respect anyone however who can provide a logical defense of his beliefs or can even display a sincere devotion to his or her principles.

That said…I don’t like to be called a Christian. While I believe the main fundamentals of Christianity, my interpretation of the Bible is so MASSIVELY different from most others that I have encountered in the body, that the term is almost insulting to me. I like to see myself as someone who challenges people *especially teenagers* to step up to their convictions and principles and really live according to them, but in order to DO that, people have to know what their convictions are and what they believe. I think most of the church has lost that, and their convictions lie more in hatred than love. That’s just human nature, but I don’t like crowds because eventually they all get that way. I like small group Bible studies *if you call it that* where I can talk with my intelligent Christian friends about serious topics like this. Whether we agree or not is irrelevant, I enjoy actually having Constructive input and challenging discourse rather than a black and white image of morality in a color-filled life.

Welcome to CCN, I hope you like it here, because I think I’m going to really like you here.

-Pike.

Nihonsurfer: pike,

thank you for your input. it’s really great to hear from someone who has put a lot of thought into their words! Christianity is about love and understanding. after all, you have to understand your neighbour before you can love them, as Jesus suggested to all of us. knowledge may be power, but understanding, wisdom, and love are what really bring us to His Grace.

someone wise once told me a story about heaven. i hope you, and whoever else reads this, can gain some insight and inspiration. here it goes:

there was a man who had the good fortune to visit heaven before he died. when he came back to earth, all of his comrades exhausted him with questions about heaven. they all asked if it was beautiful and filled with gorgeous things and infinite pleasure. the man said that heaven was actually quite different from the normal conceptions and theories. he said that heaven was actually a very simple and pleasant place. when asked to describe God’s glory and heaven’s majesties, the man said only one thing about them: "in heaven, there is an infinite amount of delicious food. however, no one is able to eat it themselves. this is because they all have two long spoons tied to their arms, keeping their arms completely straight. so, unable to feed themselves, the inhabitants of heaven feed each other with their own spoons that kept them from feeding themselves. that is what heaven is like; everyone helping and caring for one another in perfect harmony and peace while the angels sang beautiful praise to the Lord."

i heard this story during chapel one day when i was 13. it literally brought me to tears. it gave me so much hope in God and His eternal Love for ALL of His children. unfortunately, i lost my faith to drugs, alcohol, major depression, and various mental illnesses.

it wasn’t until i was 17 that i realized one day in chapel that God, His Son, and the Holy Ghost were still with me, contrary to my belief that They had abandonned me for so long. so, here’s another story that i hope brings inspiration and hope to all who read it:

a troubled young man was walking on the beach one day when he saw Jesus. the young man approached Him and asked him, "why have you left me here to suffer; why have you put me through such intense pain?" "See those foot prints in the sand over there?" Jesus said. the young man said yes and said, "there are only one pair of foot prints! see? you have left me here to walk this path of suffering all alone!" Jesus replied and said, "my son, those are not your foot prints. those are my foot prints, for I have carried you through all of your suffering and brought you here to this new day, alive and well." hearing this, the young man wept and begged Jesus for forgiveness. "why would I have any reason to hate you? was it not I who carried you through your pain?" Jesus said. "come, let us walk together into your future; into my Father’s love and brilliance."

alright, enough stories! i hope you enjoyed them as much as i did! i hope to hear from you soon, pike, and whoever else who read this and found some inspiration!

in His Hands,
~alex

Hazel-Rah: Pike, you want to challenge teenagers to stand by their convinctions eh?

Do you find ad hominem a good way of doing so? Attack the idea, not the teenager. You can assert your own convictions without sarcasm powerful enough to knock out a tank battalion.

zeo just stated their opinion. You have no way of knowing how educated or passionate they are based on one post.

FallenAngel: I never attacked him directly, only by sarcastically pointing out the extreme amount of logical fallacies inherent in his passionate, but not well defended claims. If you reread you’ll realize that that post basically explains not only what I believe about the topics mentioned but also why I believe that his opinions are unfounded.

Honestly, from having enough experience with people of his belief type, I believe sarcasm is about the most effective method of responding, and that’s not a justification, I have been a dissident amongst Christians like zeo for years and I’ve found that the easiest way for both of us is if I remain in-your-face and grating. Why? I believe it is because it makes choices more obvious for the Christian. My screen name is Fallen Angel, so if he reads my post and continues to feel as though his opinions *which I will repeat again are not based on any scientific evidence or even supported by such* are valid (which most Christians that I encounter would do even if you started to rip out their hair), then he responds (likely making light of my screen name and pointing out that I am "indeed a fallen angel" and that I "should be careful" because "God knows my heart" (as is the typical response from such believers) then I have already given him plenty of ammunition with which to respond equally sarcastically and come out of the experience *though a little frustrated* pleased with himself that he is "strong" in his beliefs. You have no idea how often this has proven itself to be the case in my conversations online and off with fundamentalist Christians.

Their other option is to try to argue with me logically in which case they will have already started along a path towards researching their beliefs which is fine with me, great actually because I believe anyone who studies their beliefs at all will come away with less radical views than the ones he presented. *this happens about 1/4 of the time*.

Or he will see my points and be humiliated slightly, realizing that he doesn’t really know where he got his passionate opinions and will be at a point *though perhaps a bit vulnerable* where he is willing to learn rather than to press his opinion upon others. *This happens about 25% of the time as well, leaving angry sarcasm as the remaining 50%, however…let’s take a look at what happens if I respond calmly*.

I have found that when I calmly ask questions or state my beliefs I generate a FAR more explosive reaction. The later parts of my sophomore year and the beginnings of my Junior year I was quite irate with Christians and the church itself and dressed accordingly, while still coming to my youth group, hoping to get some answers. During this time I asked many questions on the aggressive, none that my unprepared peers could answer, but they all found easy to dismiss because I was notably upset. Somehow despite the alarming ramifications of many of my questions, they were able to ignore my questions because I was so notably angry, or they would do as stated above and ask me random questions that made no sense in order to make me "look stupid". But it wasn’t until the later part of my Junior year and all of my Senior year that I really lost my place in church.

By my Senior year I had accepted what I believed as a…"Christian" or whatever I am, and it no longer mattered to me at all what people thought of what I believed, so I was able to discuss very calmly about what I believed and didn’t. At youth group, I found this to cause more problems than last year, which quite surprised me at first…After all I was not trying to cause problems or discord, simply sharing my opinions and interpretation of the Bible. One would think that behavior would be welcomed excitedly by a church that I had riddled with attacks the year before after all, here I was reading my Bible and citing verses…why were they angry? That was when I realized that the Bible was exactly the problem, people don’t like hearing their beliefs attacked, but they cannot stand hearing them calmly and easily refuted, because as long as their beliefs are being attacked, they can be defensive, if they are refuted, the discussion is over. But for the everday Christian teenager who was raised by Christian parents, raised in the church, goes to Christian school, the conditioning of their belief system is so complete that to reject what they belief about sex before marriage is as difficult as to relearn everything they’ve ever learned about life, so often times they will not do that, but rather become intensely frustrated and attack me, which is fine, I’m getting pretty used to it, lol.

All of that said, I’ve found it’s easier for all of us if I use sarcasm, bystanders can laugh, so can I, and the "attacked" has much simpler choices to deal with, which tends to result in a better outcome for him. I assure you that I would not have ever begun to research my beliefs had not a member of this very board sarcastically destroyed my passionate beliefs about the authenticity of Christ’s life. I was devastated at first, and humiliated, but I knew that there was no question that could have appeared out of nowhere to suddenly disprove Christianity and the Bible, and it was at that point that I began to quit caring about wanting to know the Christian version of the truth and began wanting to know only the truth and that was when members of this community picked me up and began sharing with me what they believed *which was not always anything even CLOSE to anything I’d ever heard of before*, but as I listened to their beliefs and their defense of them, I learned how to formulate my own beliefs and defend them myself and how to test the beliefs of others, and while it has been challenging, it has been well worth it so far.

I am actually writing *though tediously and slowly* a book based on this and similar topics that have arisen along my way, and hope that more teenagers will adopt this type of behavior. *see how now that I’m being calm, the idea of more people acting the way I do becomes more serious and potentially frightening?* I do attempt to get teenagers to act on their principles and convictions, but not until they have their own principles and convictions. Being taught everything you know at Sunday schoool and being passionate about that is not what I’m encouraging. I hope to encourage individuals who have their own priorities and to help them to live in accordance with those priorities firmly in mind.

Hope that sort of helps…you too nihon, because there is so much that could be said about the present state of the church that no number of books could contain it.

-Pike.

Edit: Oh my gosh…you used the words ‘tank’ and ‘batallion’ in your post and I didn’t mention it in that WHOLE thing?!?! What’s wrong with me?

I’m currently working on practicing my sarcasm up to

Hiroshima

levels of destruction, I’m hoping it will increase my chances of being hired in the government within the next few years. What a great day it will be when I can stop our nation’s enemies in their tracks from halfway around the globe with a nuclear attack of alarmingly cynical words? I believe Bush would be proud.

Nihonsurfer: pike,

ulterior motives seem very evident to me in your sarcasm. while it does prove effective against some forms of "attacks," sarcasm is still the epitome of passive-aggresiveness. your anger and frustration towards the church and modern Christians are, i believe, festering inside of you. don’t let them get you down; be confident in who YOU are and what you believe, not how THEY are and what they believe. please accept this advice, not as criticism, but as constructive criticism.

and hazel-rah, i greatly appreciate your input as well. thank you for setting your points and opinions on the table without fear or irrational judgement. not everyone can do that, you know? and i completely agree with the "hate the game, not the player" aspect that applies to so many things in modern

america

!

As i said in my previous posts, God is about love. He is the only one who can pass true Judgement upon us, as He is the only one who can see into our souls. so try to look at things objectively, without presumptions or descriptions, or even labels. just notice things and let your senses take them in. like an expensive, good-smelling perfume; smell it only to enjoy the smell, not to envy those who can afford it, or how people would think of you if you wore that perfume, etc. love begets love, and fear begets hatred, violence, and inner madness. i know this, not only from the star wars movies =), but also from my own experiences.

blessings!
~alex

-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

Admittedly, i was angry when i read this. Pike’s right. We find it hard to accept when our beliefs are being attacked. But after thinking a bit and calming down, here’s my say…

To some extent, Pike’s words hold some truth. Firstly, and very importantly, we do not have adequate knowledge of the bible. And yes, we do swallow both truths and non-truths blindly. Two, we as Christian prejudge all too often. And in Pike’s case, the terrible rejection he received from him church led him to search for the ‘truth’ by himself. *Our actions may affect others more than we realize* For the rest, u’ll see bits of answers in my VOH article. Its titled 2nd Generation Christian. Pretty straightforward but was so smelly hard to write. Most of the facts are taken from other books so it should be sufficiently accurate.

Challenge: How would u react to Pike? =)

Think…think..think..

And do comment, for heavens’ sake.

PS: I have to admit, Pike’s sarcasm is lovely.

Whooo… Its a sick world i tell you. Either that, or God has a real FARNY sense of humour. HA.HA.

What’s the joke?

(pause, one, two…)

I passed my physics.

(stunned silence. The trees that were swaying to the breeze a moment ago freezes. The homeless old dude cackling to himself stops and slowly turns at you. Then back at me. And the inevitable happens. HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!….)

-0-"

No i’m deadly serious. I…passed…physics… Whoa. Its just a borderline pass actually- 40% In fact, my teacher had to give me that pathetic one mark before i hit 9G. Well…well…. (My brother installed this funny program that reads out whatever u type on it in this deep and rather freaky voice. Right now its saying, "I am all mighty, all powerful! Bow before me human scum!! =p its fun…! Anyway…ahem) I don’t believe it. I passed. A-M-A-Z-I-N-G.

And i’m dying rite now coz got bio project, add maths project and VOH article to hand up. Blek.

So long my freaky darlings.